.30 cal Target/long range

Discussion in 'General Chit-Chat' started by hombre243, Oct 21, 2013.

  1. hombre243

    hombre243 Well-Known Member

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    I know this is a Marlin forum but...I am interested in shooting long range...the longest range locally is 100-600 yards. I want to set up a .30 cal rifle (starter package) to see if I can even shoot and hit over 200-300 yards. Eventually up to the 600 yards and maybe even longer if I can find a range.

    What I need is pointers...Remington, Savage, Marlin??? .308 or .30-06? Optics type...scope of peep? I am partial to scopes but...they like to clobber me with a heavier recoiling rifle so I need a longer eye relief.

    I just need some general input. I have even considered starting out with an H&R Handy Rifle in .308 just to see if I can handle 30 cal recoil. No sense spending a thousand on a rifle the makes me cry and then having to take a hit reselling it...know what I mean?:cool:

    Whatch'yall think?
    Thanks in advance.
    h243
     
  2. greyhawk50

    greyhawk50 Well-Known Member

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    General input;
    Not based on experience.
    Marlin make the 308 Express although it might be pricey. But it should hold it's value. The 338 Express is another option in the Marlin line-up.
    Several manufacturers make an entry level 30 caliber bolt rifle. Shop around to see what your options are.
    I once owned a Weatherby Vanguard (made by Howa) that was an excellent rifle. It was chambered in 270. Very accurate with a smooth trigger pull and action.
    I've owned 2 Handy Rifles and wasn't pleased with the accuracy of either one. One was a 243 and the other was a 223. If you experience the 3" groups at 100 yards as I did, you wont be happy with the results at 400 - 600 yards. JMHO
    As for scopes, I've been happy with the BSA and the Center Points that I've owned. Another highly recommended scope is the Nikon Pro Staff. They cost more but come highly ranked by the professional guides. And they can be switched to another rifle if you so desire. Think of them as an investment.

    I'm sure that others will chime in soon.

    Maybe SWO1 will give us a report on his Rossi 308???????????????
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2013

  3. hombre243

    hombre243 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks greyhawk,
    I really don't want to spend a grand on a rifle bt I saw several that sell for a lot less than that. Locally, a Rem 700 Tactical and a Savage Varmint, both available in several calibers at around $750. On sale now for 50 to a hundred-fifty bucks off...But of course I have to save the money. I was lookin at a Savage Hog Gun in 308. Short heavy barrel. I think a longer barrel will be more stable. Maybe give me a bit of a cleaner burn and a boost in velocity. May be minor stuff...I dont know but I think there are some suitable starters out there that will give me what I need and if I grow into a real live long range shooter...who knows? Maybe I will buy one of those custom sooper duper jobs. Time will tell.
    Thanks
    h243
     
  4. hombre243

    hombre243 Well-Known Member

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    PS I read an article about 30's being replaced by some 6mm and 6.5 guns and the recommendations are steerin away from the heavy boomers because of the recoil. I was also told a .308 is a good long range cartridge that does not have the recoil of the 30-06 but are a good at 1000 yards. Looks it is going to be fun researching and then deciding. I like it!

    http://www.6mmbr.com/schatz1000.html
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2013
  5. greyhawk50

    greyhawk50 Well-Known Member

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    Like I said, I was very pleased with the Weatherby Vanguard in 270.
    Aside from that, I prefer Lever Guns. My main interest is shotguns.
    Just doing some research on-line;
    Savage makes the Axis Combo Rifle in 308 or 30-06 for around $300.
    Ruger makes the American Rifle (only) in 308 & 30-06. MSRP is $450 but a local shop has it for $300.
    Savage has the 11/111 Hunter Combo at MSRP of $550 but a local shop has the Model 10 TR Rifle only for $440.
    Mossberg has the 308 bolt rifle for about $400 plus another $50 for the combo.
    Remington came out with a entry level center fire rifle that they speak highly of, but I'd check the reviews before buying one.
    Our Walmat has center fire rifle at good prices. Gun shows might be another option.
    Take your time and save your $$. A lesson that I learned years ago (after loosing my tail a few times) was not to buy on impulse.
    First consideration was price. Could I sell it and at least break even? Second was, does it meet my needs? Third was, could I afford to feed it?
    I wish you well in your hunt. After all, the hunt is 1/2 the fun.

    And lastly, a Marlin 30-30 with the LEVERevalution Ammo will take a deer at 250+ yards if you do your part. Is shooting at 400 - 600 yards really an option? For me, personally, 250 yards would be my extreme limit. But then again, I getting old. I hear that Texas has some wide open country but seems like they have a lot of brush also. Maybe putting on a good stalk would be worth the savings. Not trying to nudge you one way or another. You know your wants and needs better than anyone.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2013
  6. SWO1

    SWO1 Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporting

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    Ahhh.....200 - 500 yds with the .308, Iron sight no less. Did it for lot of years. Qual every year and a few competition. The 30-06 was king until the birth of the .308. At first it was laughed at but quickly noticed past 300 yards it kicked butt. Out to 5-600 its still Cock-of-The Walk. Now get past that and the 6 and 6.5mm have taken over. The word is "coefficient"

    Something has to be the best and the .308 happens to be within that range. Now not to say other calibers don't do well, they do, and on occasion win some matches. But in the long haul, over the course the .308 is the standard.

    Getting a gun to shoot 1" groups at 100 isn't hard anymore. Pick em up at Wally World for around $300. Now move to 200 and to shoot 1 MOA groups (which is about 2.1") and it starts to get a little more challenging. At 300 yard even more so. You have to be able to READ THE WIND, Heat Mirage, That's what spotting scopes are for.....Not for looking at bullet holes....LOL. Also at 300+ equipment quality starts to play a major factor. Barrels, Stocks (bedding for sure), triggers, Ammo. Enviromental conditions start coming into play, Tempature, Humidity.

    Go back to 1000 (they do shoot 30 cal at that distance ) and it gets really weird. Along with all the other afore mentioned variables now the EARTHS ROTATION GOES INTO AFFECT. Depending where on the planet you are at it will move the bullet as much at 3.5" in drift on top of the wind.

    Your heart beat will effect your hold at the longer distances. If a 1/4 click on a scope moves the POI 1/4" at 100 what will a heart beat that jiggles the sights or crosshairs 1/64 do at 1000...... think about it... its not a straight line calculation......its compounded.

    ITS FUN.....GO FOR IT

    Oh I forgot....... One of the best and most used platforms for a gun is a Remington 700 action. You should be able to pick up a pretty good one with decent barrel (bull, Varment type) for around $5-600) It should already be bedded and have around a 2 lb or better trigger. Mine would shoot under .4" 100 yards groups with hunting loads and a Nikon 14X. My suggestion is start at 100 till YOU and your gun can get well under .5" don't go back. Of course all depends on how serious you get.... ITS JUST MONEY...... :D
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2013
  7. hombre243

    hombre243 Well-Known Member

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    Rem 700

    I was contemplating the Rem 700 and I do want a heavy barrel. I can see payin up to about $700.00. Scope a couple hundred more.

    I want to "shoot" at longish ranges. I want to get good at the longest range I can. I am looking forward to burning homegrowns. That is the fun for me. I am starting all over now that my eyes are better.

    I had an opportunity in '90 to hunt elk in Montana and bought all new load materials, all new components for the .270. I used a Remington 78 rifle and worked the loads up to a bit over 2900 fps for the 150 grainers I used. All charges were hand weighed and all bullets were weighed for uniform weights.

    My best group at the longest available range, 165 yards, 15 shots, was 1-1/8". I kept the last 5 of that lot and loaded up 4 more boxes (80 rounds) just like em. I didn't get an elk but I did get a little muley for the pot. I was totally sold and totally hooked on loading my own.

    I want to shoot informal competition, but I have never been cutthroat competitive. I just have fun doin a bit better next time, than last time, and workin out the bugs if I don't. It is always an ongoing process for me...the fun never stops as long as I can get my...as long as I can shoot SOMETHING.:D

    Thanks all for the tips. I will let you know what I decide on.
     
  8. SWO1

    SWO1 Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporting

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    Seems like you are starting with a good attitude. Compete against yourself. That's what I do anymore. You can still shoot in organized events. Cost you will find is mostly CHEAP. ENTRY fee to the National Match at Camp Perry is just $10. Probley the same at most clubs/ranges. bulk of expense is gear, ammo, and travel.

    You will find that in the .30 cal the heavier bullets 168-186 gr do the best with a 1-10 twist. Rocket velocity isn't needed for accuracy or consistency..... depending on which discipline you shoot, Groups or scores. Also the bigger, slower calibers tend to be easier on barrels than the zippy 6mms and just as accurate.

    Visit a competation and see what events they shoot, ranges, guns, equipment. Talk to the competators. Most all will gladly tell, show you what and how they do it. They keep no secrets, after all every gun is different and loads, as we all know don't work across platforms. Get a copy of the rules. Nothing worse than showing up with gear that dosnt conform to the rules and they wont let you shoot.....:(
     
  9. hombre243

    hombre243 Well-Known Member

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    I have time to research em all...

     
  10. Bucky

    Bucky Well-Known Member

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    G day Hombre
    As far as scope, and good eye relief goes, you will get a nice surprise with a Ziess Scope.
    I now have 2, on rifles, and love them.
    As per normal, the more fancy the scope, the more $'s you will pay

    Recoil, is in the "eye of the beholder."
    Personally I don't feel it much at all , so you can call me one of the lucky ones., then again, I do not bench rest, and when sighting in with a "kicker", I normally just lean across the bonnet of my 4x4, or just use the bipods, in a prone position, as a last resort, if I cannot get a good enough group at 200 meters.

    Cheers Mate
    Bucky
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2013
  11. hombre243

    hombre243 Well-Known Member

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    Recoil

    In the eye...is my problem. I feel the recoil when the scope smacks me. Now that I have had eye surgery my eyes don't have to be so close. I noticed that when i went to the tange. Now I have to reset all my scopes.

    I will work out the recoil problem if it hurts. Usually unless it is severe I can ignore it. Otherwise I just lay a folded towel over my shoulder and let er rip.

    The only rifle I had to get rid of because of recoil was the Lyman 54 cal with a curved steel butt that had a sharp toe. I didnt get thst rifle to shoot 50-60 grain loads. At 100-150 grain loads it was brutal. 90 was doable. But every shot with any load was a problem because of the toe.

    I am anxious to get the 308. Hopefully by spring.
     
  12. SWO1

    SWO1 Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporting

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    Off the bench I shoot all mine, 223, 243, 308 in free recoil. Butt NOT in the sholder. Everyone has their tolerance level. With the Youth model 7X I did get a slight DING from the scope due to the short Butt Stock.....SO I backed off a bit.....:p

    You will find that without a REAL GOOD front rest the bigger calibers have a tendiancy to come up and out of the rest. That's why bench rifles are HEAVY and have fore ends 3" wide sitting on front rests that put side pressure on them. The 308 is not considered a Heavy Recoil rifle. The 300 and 338 mags will get your attention.
     
  13. hombre243

    hombre243 Well-Known Member

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    front rest

    I have several but the best is the big gorilla front rest. Heavy sucker. Im sure it will be sufficient. I cant wait to get started. I may have to sell my ass to afford a new rifle though. I hate to do that. Ol Fred is the best mule I ever had.:D
     
  14. Bucky

    Bucky Well-Known Member

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    Hombre
    That is called a "weatherby eyebrow", and if you do the the wrong thing, you will get one all the time.
    I have had a couple over the years, but luckily never stitched. :eek:
    300 win mags are notorious for them, as they come back really fast.
     
  15. hombre243

    hombre243 Well-Known Member

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    Ouch!!!

    I have heard that before. Is it coined using Weatherby because most ofthe Weatherby line are magnum versions?

    I had a friend who bought a Vanguard 270 and I had a Reminvton 78 in that caliber. I liked it and the gun shot well for me. How does the recoil of the 270 and 308 compare? I can't imagine they are much different. I plan to get a heavier rifle anyway so recoil should be no problem.

    When you are hunting you don't feel the recoil anyhow. I think a varminter will bemy choice...kind of like cross trainer bicycle.:rolleyes:
     
  16. SWO1

    SWO1 Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporting

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    All depends on the rifle, and the load, but overall the .270 is a little harder recoil than the .308. The .270 is on a necked down 30-06 case.

    270 is a GOOD hunting cartridge, but for target work, Ballistics just not there.
     
  17. hombre243

    hombre243 Well-Known Member

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    .270 VS .308 recoil

    I really liked the .270 but youre right, it do have a bit of recoil. I'm not too worried about recoil...just wondered. Thanks for the tip. They are always welcome.
     
  18. Bucky

    Bucky Well-Known Member

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    Love my 270
     
  19. hombre243

    hombre243 Well-Known Member

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    270

    I liked mine too. I shot it very well but ran into money problems and sold it. Can't use them in Illinois for anything except on a private range. But i am glad I got this 308 now. I may get another 270 someday but I want a .223/5.56 just because ammo is clogging the shelves and I feel a deep responsibility to help eliminate the glut.:cool:

    The weight of this 308 rifle is ok for lugging around the hills lookin for coyotes too, so I may head out Sunday with it and a 22 pistol and see if there are any squirrels lurkin about. I always see yotes out there. Now I can reach out there and whack one.:D