45-70 or .458 WM?

Discussion in 'Other Marlin Rifles' started by BBBB4Grizzly, Apr 1, 2012.

  1. BBBB4Grizzly

    BBBB4Grizzly Member

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    Hi;
    What do you all think would be a better big bore bear buster (BBBB4Grizzly) for Grizzly defense(not hunting)...a lever action 45-70 ( I just got a 1895SBL) or the .458 WM in a bolt action, loaded down to 45-70 "hot load" levels?
    I have grown tired of hunting animals that do not have a chance to fight back or eat me...want that thrill;)
     
  2. axxe55

    axxe55 Well-Known Member

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    i would say the the 458 Win. Mag. should be more powerful, but the 45-70 with the right load would be better as to it would be faster for follow-up shots if needed, than a bolt action.
     

  3. 28Shooter

    28Shooter Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporting

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    I'm with Axxe on this one, the .458 is the more powerful of the two rounds but the recoil and recovery time is also longer. The 45-70 will give you faster follow-up shots and isn't the ammo a bit cheaper and more available?
     
  4. axxe55

    axxe55 Well-Known Member

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    i would have to say that 458 might be regional, because if i wanted some it would have to special ordered. now i can find 45-70 in factory ammo in some places. never compared cost difference, but just guessing, i bet the 458 is more expensive.
     
  5. Hyphenated

    Hyphenated Well-Known Member

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    Well since this is the 'Marlin Forum'.....I'm going with the 45-70 lever gun. Since you talked about down loading the .458 Win Mag to 45-70 levels, you might as well carry a 45-70.

    However, you did mention you want to give them a "chance to fight back or eat me...want that thrill". I think the 45-70 is too much gun for that type of entertainment. Maybe a 30-30 would provide the challenge you seek and give the Grizzly an opportunity for some fun as well. :D

    BTW...welcome to the forum.
     
  6. BBBB4Grizzly

    BBBB4Grizzly Member

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    :D...uh, well ...I am not that much of a good sport, bear with me now;)...
    ...I meant that they already have the edge (Browns & Grizzly)...no?
    When you are in their "house", you are often the "hunted" :eek:
    Don't get me wrong...I LOVE venison & elk, real good eating and can be very challenging to find & shoot...and am not passing judgment on those who hunt defenseless animals...but kinda became like shooting "fish in a barrel" or sniping...good spotting glasses, scope & hi-powered flat shoot'n rifle and they don't stand a chance.
    I want to hunt where mistakes can be costly and experience the rush of bagging an apex predator.
     
  7. Hyphenated

    Hyphenated Well-Known Member

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    I understand what you are saying. A well practiced rifleman with a 7mm or 300mag can shoot deer practically as far as you can see them. That is why my .270 is semi retired and I have been using nothing but my older lever actions. It certainly has put the 'hunt', back in hunting for me.

    If you want to get in the thick stuff and go face to face with Yogi I say more power to you. The great thing about hunting is the individual sets the limits on himself to make it more or less challenging. I was busting your chops a little about hunting bears with a 30-30, but I bet it has been done. I think stalking big bears up close and personal with a .45-70 would provide all the excitement my heart could stand. I hope you make it happen someday.
     
  8. axxe55

    axxe55 Well-Known Member

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    i too see where you're coming from. anytime you are in the woods where there are bears, you do become the hunted in a sense. i agree, that given the rifles in my collection, pretty much anything such as deer or any other game were to wander across my crosshairs wouldn't have much of a chance. pretty much why i have given up hunting and seldom ever hunt anymore, not really sporting as you said. i do enjoy shooting and have pretty much resigned myself to high powered accurate target shooting. i do enjoy getting as much accuracy as i can from a rifle.

    i think the the 45-70 in a lever action would be the rifle that would suit your needs. plenty of power from a large heavy bullet, and with a lever action, easier follow-up shots if needed. the Marlin lever actions are stout, and you could load some very good bear loads to put those big animals on the ground.
     
  9. BBBB4Grizzly

    BBBB4Grizzly Member

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    Yeah...while I get it, as far as hi-power long range rifle & scope hunting puts good eat'n meat on the table...for a long time, been there done that and if that is your "thing", primary hunting goal, more power to ya...but I have decided aside from the thrill of hunting game that hunts you...I have decided not to shoot anything over 100 yds. and hunt with iron sights or very low power fixed power or low variable scope, say no more than 1.5 x 4 or so?
    Give 'em a sporting chance;)
     
  10. Gaterskiner

    Gaterskiner Well-Known Member

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    Get A sharp stick and A good knife and go get em! very sporting.
     
  11. BBBB4Grizzly

    BBBB4Grizzly Member

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    :D uh I'm no Mick Dundee...
    ...my Marlin & some Garrett HammerHead loads will do:cool:
     
  12. SHOOTER13

    SHOOTER13 RETIRED MODERATOR Lifetime Supporting

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    Davey... Davey Crockett... King of the wild frontier !! ;)
     
  13. Rooster59

    Rooster59 Well-Known Member

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    Well the lever would be faster on follow up shots but if you like a challenge and are a junkie for adrenalin........

    Why not a Shiloh Sharps with a 34" barrel? You could poke it in the belly a couple times with that long barrel before you pull the trigger. That might jack up the tension level a little before the two of you square off for a good bit of rastlin'. ;)
     
  14. seasidehunter

    seasidehunter Member

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    1895 45-70

    get some of that hard cast - shoot all the way through

    Boom
     
  15. Big Shrek

    Big Shrek Well-Known Member

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    That's why I switched to Archery...have to be heap good woodsman to sneak up within 35 yards of Bambi ;)

    And sick puppy that I am, I've used a Glock 20 (10mm) for hog...
     
  16. xwrench3

    xwrench3 Active Member

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    for me, i would take the 45/70 hands down over the 458 win mag. no doubt that the 458 mag, in standard loading, would certainly do much more damage on the initial shot. but downloading it to hot 45/70 loads, is going to put you into trying to shoot a much longer gun, with a bolt action, in what is more times than not, a close quarters situation. the lever gun can be shot by almost everyone much faster than a bolt action gun. and a shorter gun, in short range usage will be a lot faster to point and shoot. by not utilizing all of the power of the 458 magnum round, you are actually handi-capping yourself. now, using the 458 mag, in full power trim, vs. the 45/70 with hot loads, would be a completely different conversation. i would have to think long and hard about that. and, for what it is worth, the 458 magnum cartridges will run you around $100.00 a box. so $5.00 each shot. but, when you are putting your life on the line, what is $5.00!
     
  17. xwrench3

    xwrench3 Active Member

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    well, the REAL bottom line is, which will you be able to shoot accurately under attack scenario pressure? because if you panic and can not hit the beast, it will not matter if you have a 3" cannon. the trick is finding a way to trigger a massive dump of adrenaline into your system, and then shoot. because if you can manage to not panic under a bear attack, you are superman. and you will not need a gun. if you can shoot the 45/70 accurately enough, with a good stout load, i can see no reason it would not deter/stop a bear. if it is a sow defending its young however, you might need that 3 inch cannon loaded with a pound of IMR7828 and a 3" soft lead ball.