Hand Gun Choice is a matter of personal preference.

Discussion in '2nd Amendment' started by greyhawk50, Dec 22, 2012.

  1. greyhawk50

    greyhawk50 Well-Known Member

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    Not wanting to hijack SWO1's thread about CCW Training, here is a related topic.
    Directed at SWO1 as well as many others on this forum;
    I have every confidence in your knowledge and abilities with a hand-gun.
    For that very reason, please give any ideas, comments or related articles.

    Below is an article that I have saved and read thru many times. I agree with most of what it says although, in many ways, it addresses only the basics. For those that are fairly new to handguns, this may be of some help. The author is unknown. At the very least, it's a thought provoking read.

    Hand Gun Choices;
    Hand Gun Choice is a matter of personal preference.

    First the gun must first be a natural pointer using the Applegate method. If you don't understand this concept read Bullseyes Don't Shoot Back. This concept is not negotiable. Practice instinctive point shooting in the dark, without use of sights at ranges from contact to 15 feet. At close range your attention is target focused, not sight focused. You are not looking at the sights you are not watching his hands. Point the gun as an extension of your finger, eyes always on the target. If the grip angle is wrong or the grip doesn't fit and you cannot get the first shot off and hit a paper plate in 1 second, it is a deal breaker. My own preference is for a gun which can be carried safely with the chamber loaded, and which can be fired immediately in double-action using a natural continuous trigger stroke, without having to manipulate an external safety. Examples which work for me are the Walther PP, Mauser HSc, and Beretta INOX Tomcat (which has the heavier slide than the blue version - mine has fired over 200 rounds with no problems). These are only lower profile substitutes for a DA only .38 snubby loaded with http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=765718.
    X38PD if a social situation, say either tux or bathing suit, T-shirt and flip-flops, won't handle cylinder bulge.


    Second, the gun must be safe, rugged and reliable. Shoot not less than 500 rounds to "shake down" any carry gun before staking your life on it. No malfunctions which cannot be cleared at the user level in 2 seconds or less are unacceptable.

    Third, Practice with the gun. Don't complicate things by changing to different guns or holsters whenever your socks get dirty.

    Fourth, when using marginal calibers shot placement, use of multiple hits and penetration are key. Many guns do not feed reliably with hollow-point ammunition. Remember what I said about firing 500 rounds. Hollow-points which do expand often fail in penetration, even if they feed OK. It's better to use .32 ACP hardball which always feeds, dump the magazine at the threat and run like hell, than to get your brains bashed in and both arms broken with a baseball bat while you are clearing a jam.

    If you carry a little gun and try to stand and fight you'll never live to shoot them all. A mouse-gun buys time to escape from the kill zone. That is all.
     
  2. Gumpy

    Gumpy AKA Richard Prestage

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    'Happiness is a warm gun!'

    the Beatles
     

  3. SWO1

    SWO1 Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporting

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    Interesting thread greyhawk50. I've read and reread it before making a reply.

    I'll refrain from making reference to any articles and go only on what I have experienced first hand.

    First point....I've never heard of the Applegate method, although from what the article and book review say it seems to go along with all combat courses I have taken. Also it seems to mirror what actully happens in (or did to me) in a combat setting. I may try and find the mentioned book.

    Second point....Totally agree. This one I can attest to FIRST HAND. Even tho my thought is that it was due to an inhearent design flaw and not a mechanical faliure.

    Third point....Somewhat....I own more than one, and practice with all. Satisfied that I am compitent with any of mine at any time.

    Fourth point...Don't really believe there is a "marginial" caliber. There are people with marginial placement and bullet choice.

    Be interested in what others have to say.
     
  4. tahoe2

    tahoe2 Well-Known Member

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    It all makes sense to me, I prefer a double action revolver, nothing to fiddle with, just point and pull (trigger). 100% reliable, the only marginal caliber might be the 38 spl (other's opinions, not mine). I have been shooting that format for 40+ years. Maybe not 500 rounds through each one, but I am sufficiently satisfied with my results, and totally confident in the function of them and my own ability. However under duress (pray it never happens), I just hope the mechanics of it all comes through.
     
  5. greyhawk50

    greyhawk50 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with most of the article although it only covers the basics.
    Many years ago, I considered myself a better than average pistol shot. I've taken 2 deer with a handgun. I've once humbled an Army Pistol Team Member at a nearby Armory with a 6" Python. He was using his Match 1911.
    Although I lack any first hand experience with self defense, I have ran thousands of round thru handguns.
    As I've gotten older and my eye sight have began to fail, I've became more interested in instinctive shooting from 7-10 yards with both eyes open. I quess that is why this article caught my eye. That and I can see where it compares to a close-in lethal threat situation.

    First point; I've studied the Applegate Method but haven't officially taken the course.

    Second point; I agree with testing the weapon but I question the need for more than 100 failure free test rounds. Additional rounds can be spent as you practice proper form and accuracy during later trip to the range.

    Third point; For the experienced shooter, this may not apply. For a beginner, it could be good advise. I especially related to the subject of grip angle My preference is for semi-autos. Although I like the 1911 style, personally, I find the angle of the PPK style to feel more natural when pointing at the target.

    Agree - Fourth point...Don't really believe there is a "marginial" caliber. There are people with marginial placement and bullet choice.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2012
  6. Hyphenated

    Hyphenated Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty much in agreement with everything Greyhawk said at the start of the thread.

    I am one of those folks that believes there are 'marginal' calibers. Bring enough gun. Shootings in real life don't happen like in the movies. People being hit with 9mm's don't get picked up and knocked across the room. The adrenaline or drugs makes return fire a possibility and you want to lower the bad guys blood pressure as fast as possible. Bigger calibers do just that. However....having said all that, I believe any gun is better than no gun in your time of need. So if your wife, girlfriend or daughter are only comfortable shooting a .22LR or .32ACP go with it. I feel most adult females can learn to master a small frame .380ACP or .38Spl. revolver.
     
  7. greyhawk50

    greyhawk50 Well-Known Member

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  8. SWO1

    SWO1 Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporting

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    I found this about the Applegate Point Shooting Method. It is the basis for what is taught in the Military for close combat with handgun and rifles. And yes it does work for both. I have attached the link. Although I employed it limited with a handgun, used it extensively with the rifle at night.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_shooting
     
  9. greyhawk50

    greyhawk50 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks SWO1.
    Very interesting reading.
    With my failing eye sight, it has became impossible for me to see iron sights. Therefore, if I want to remain proficient with a handgun, I need to practice point & shoot techniques.
    With rifles, using a scope helps some. The use of a Red Dot or a Reflex sight is the best option, although neither has any magnification.
    I don't like optics on pistols so the Point & Shoot works well. If I'm shooting at distance, I do pretty well with shooting right handed while aiming with my left eye.
    As for Shotguns, I've shot Trap, Sporting Clays and Skeet for many years. Ideal point & shoot exercise.
    This is why I have systematically reduced my pistol & rifle inventory while increasing the number of Shotguns in my safe.
    It is what it is - and we adjust accordingly. I'm thankful for all the abilities that I have left. No complains from here. ;)
     
  10. 28Shooter

    28Shooter Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporting

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    I'm a big fan of double-action revolvers (S&W being my brand of choice - older pre-internal locks) and find that finding the right grip helps out a lot. I used to use Herrett Jordan Troopers (somewhat costly) but have found that Hogue Monogrips (Pau Ferro without finger grooves) fit me like a charm and are great for instinct shooting. Fit and practice are the key.