Handgun training and Qualification for MO. CCW

Discussion in '2nd Amendment' started by SWO1, Nov 30, 2012.

  1. SWO1

    SWO1 Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporting

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    This thread is for the documentation on the process of teaching my Wife and Daughter proper handgun handling and firing with the intention of obtaining a CCW in the State of Missouri.

    I have just about finished assembling a variety of firearms for this class.

    H&R 9 shot .22 revolver with 4" barrel
    H&R 9 shot .22 revolver with 6" barrel
    Sig .22 auto with 4" barrel
    .380 compact auto (havnt picked this one up yet so dont know the make)
    Charter Arms .38 revolver with 2" barrel
    Hi-Point .40 auto with 5" barrel

    I also wanted a 9MM but my nephews Glock auto he says has Feed problems and will only work 1 round at a time..but still may use it.

    Also will have them learn on a Mossy .410 and 20ga pump and introduce saftey and handling on bolt and auto rifles.

    Actual firing will be done at 7 Yds on a B-27 silloute target (required for CCW). Assortment of calibers and firearms is to determine BEST FIT and CAPIBILITIES for each of them. To qualify applicant must place 15 of 20 shots into the 8-9-10 ring of the target. Also they must show safe handling and reload procedure with the weapon during firing. After the training course each will use their intended CCW weapon for qualification.

    Each phase of the training will be posted (with Pics) with the first session being SAFTEY. If all goes as planned this will commense tomorrow.
     
  2. Gumpy

    Gumpy AKA Richard Prestage

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    How did it go! In Alabama all you gotta do is go in the Sheriffs office and fill out an application, they run a background check on you, you give them $15 and you walk out with a permit.
     

  3. SWO1

    SWO1 Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporting

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    Today we start....

    The instruction will start off with 1. SAFTEY..for this portion I will use the NRA FIREARM SAFTEY guide as a talking point.

    The Saftey portion will be combined with 2. Pistol Familarization. The Missouri CCW training requires instruction be given on 3 types of pistols, Single Action Revolvers, Double Action Revolvers, and Automatics. Although I dont have a Single Action the concept and demonstration can be done with a double action.

    Instead of putting the saftey rules here I will provide the Link to the NRA saftey rules along with info on other training material. That way if someone wishes to print them out it will be easier.

    http://www.nrahq.org/education/guide.asp

    At this point I will state that I am fully capiable and confident in providing this training to anyone. I have been a certified Marksmanship Instructor in the Marine Corps...Shot Competation both at organized Military and Civilian (NRA) Local and State level Matches. Also I am a certified Master Instructor thru the Marine Corps having gone thru the Oklahoma University Master Instructor Program. While having instructed Marksmanship I also spent many years as a Military Occupational Speciality Instructor at Marine Corps Formal Schools. Knowledge is great but imparting that information to others requires a certian degree of organization and method of presentation. Be prepared, Be organized, Know your subject. These three points will enable you to be CONFIDENT and perform. Not that I am blowing my own horn...just stating the facts.
     
  4. SWO1

    SWO1 Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporting

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    Did the training in two seperate sessions. One with my daughter yesterday and today with my wife.

    Both went well. The daughter shot 4 pistols really well. The 922 H&R .22 Rev., Sig .22 auto, Some Brazilan made .380 auto and a 2" charter Arms .38 Rev. She shot the .38 the best but liked the Sig auto the best...go figure. Has her heart set on an auto. Was gonna wait until today after the wifes intruction and have them both shoot for score.

    The Wife did a lot better than I thought. Shot better than the daughter. She hated the little .380 as did the daughter. Said the Sig was easier just because of the sights. She also shot the .38 the best. The daughter had a date this afternoon and took off so is a NON-QUAL for now. However the wife shot the Sig and the .38 both for score. 20 of 20 with both. The .38 was best and she liked the Revolver the best also. I told her she could get a revolver with the target sights like the Sig and she was happy.

    So next stop is the gun shop to let them pick out their pistols. After they aquire them it will be more PRACTICE...PRACTICE..PRACTICE. Also a class on CLEANING...as I now have 4 to clean up....thats two days in a row....LOL.
     
  5. greyhawk50

    greyhawk50 Well-Known Member

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    CLEANING - there is a cost to everything. :D
    I'm pleased that all went well.
    Thanks for the report.
     
  6. SWO1

    SWO1 Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporting

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    I have to say that instruction to those who have ABSOLUTLY NO PRIOR EXPERIENCE is easier. Neither had ever shot or even handled a firearm in their lives. They both listened intently and did real well. My daughter after a few hints on trigger squeze and where to place her finger stopped "dragging" the trigger and pulling shots a few inches right. I made sure to correct my wife at the start on that. Both picked up sight alignment and sight picture well.

    I must say my daughter was real dilligent on saftey procedures. Never made a slip on handling her weapon. The wife however took a while to understand the concept. I very tactfully threated to Kick her off the range once. She gets sloppy on re-loading at the bench. However considering how well she shot.....dont want her mad....:p After only about 100 rds. she put 1 in the 8, 4 in the 9, 10 in the 10, and 5 Xs with the .38. And the 8 was a questionable 9.

    GEEEEZ...got to get her out deer hunting..................:eek:
     
  7. Rich1028

    Rich1028 Well-Known Member

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    women for some reason do quite well at shooting guns!
    ask...me ...my wife will tell you she is better than me!
     
  8. greyhawk50

    greyhawk50 Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like all went well. Keep us updated.
    I admire the fact that you started them off with a variety of handguns. That in itself requires a lot of time, patience and attention to detail. Your wife and daughter done well to grasp the details of revolvers, cylinders, single action, double action and then on to the semi-autos with all the levers and buttons.
    That is a lot to digest in one day.
    Applause to all concerned.
     
  9. SWO1

    SWO1 Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporting

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    I have the pistol selection down to two for my daughter. In a revolver it will be a Taurus 85PFS 2" .38 +P . In Semi-Auto it will be a Kahr E-9 in 9MM.

    The Taurus will be new and the Kahr is a used one (1997) The Kahr is 100% Carbon Steel. It has the elite trigger. Just feels NICE. Sights are real good. It will need a little work as Carbon Steel over 15 yrs shows the use (scratchs, worn). Price on the Taurus is $300, Kahr is marked $274 but it is a trade in so that is negotiable. Picture of the Taurus, No Pic of the Kahr as they dont make this model any longer and couldnt find one, updated model dosnt look anything like it.

    Wife only wants a relvolver. So no-brainer there. Daughters pistol will be her Christmas Present from me. Will go Friday afternoon and have her decide which one.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. SWO1

    SWO1 Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporting

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    My daughter made her decision, and bought it and its hers now. She ended up getting the Taurus model 605PLYB2. It's a .357 and at just over 2 oz heavier then the .38 but overall the same size. Came with two sets of grips, full length and a shorter pair. Will tear it down in the morning, check all parts, clean throughrly, oil and lube and take it to the range. She bought it (I paid for it....lol) so guess she wont have any problems getting a CCW. Pic included.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 7, 2012
  11. SWO1

    SWO1 Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporting

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    My wife has decided to carry the H&R .22 revolver, the little camper model I restored, 9 shot with 4" barrel. She could put all nine in the "head" at 7 yds. Double action. Center Mass was no problem. If thats her decision I'm ok with it also. I have provided a study done on calibers ranging from .45 down to the .22. This was done on actual shooting incidents and show suprising results. Just reinforces my belief that Caliber has really NO bearing on Actual, Real Life Performance. Of all, the .22 and .357 ( I think) dispell, as all the results do, superority of any one over the other. Read it and see what you think.

    http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866
     
  12. greyhawk50

    greyhawk50 Well-Known Member

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    I'm pleased to see that you are a visitor to Buckeyefirearms. They have some pretty good articles and are a good source of firearm related information on legal/political actions in my State. If you haven't saved that link to your Bookmarks, I suggest that you do.
    I had seen and read that article before but it was worth reviewing. In my book, comfort and confidence in the use of a firearm is paramount in achieving success. I respect her choice and pray that she will never have to use it. Who knows? She may someday decide to step up to something with a little more "pop". Either way, I applaud her completion of the course.

    Oh -- and thanks for letting us share your training experience. Family time together is always good.
     
  13. SWO1

    SWO1 Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporting

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    I suppose in a way it's like any Insurance. Hopefully you never need it. Now comes the most important part, I think. A frank discussion on the Responsibilities of deciding to be armed. A person can train and go through many sceniros of what, and how they will react to a situation. NONE can come close to the actual event. With the many months of training prior to being put into combat no pre-cursor or predictor can be made of any person as to how they will react. I will just say if you think your first case of Buck Fever was bad....Magnify that a million times...and then its still a lot more severe. Physical or mental toughness, gender (male or female), age, it makes no difference. I've seen the "Hulk Hogan" types freeze and crumble, and also the preceived mild, meek, and seemingly week perform beyond imagination. Beyond Combat I've never had to go thru that. I have taken the route that avoidance and tackful retreat is the best measure. Just because you are armed should NOT cause you to act in a manner you would not if unarmed...if anything MORE RESTRAINED.

    Once the trigger is pulled....It can't be taken back
     
  14. SWO1

    SWO1 Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporting

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    The wife and daughters CCW class is scheduled for 0830 on 6 Jan 2013. I have 5 people and an E-mail from my gun shop had another 15 confirmed within a couple hours. Sonny the Instructor wants to keep it at 20 max per class.

    In a few minutes will run the daughter thru the qual course a couple times and see how she does. Matter of fact here she is now...back later with the results.

    Well I forgot to post this before I left so will just add on to it. She did well, real well. Wont have any problem with the qualification. Shot 4 strings for qualification after 25 rounds of warmup.

    first two were with 130 gr Rem Target rounds

    1 string put 18/20 in the kill zone...a little around the clock
    2 string put 19/20 in the kill zone...again around the clock

    switched to the +P rounds

    3 string put 20/20...5-9s, 7-10s, 8-Xs.....nice group
    4 string put 20/20...4-9s, 8-10s, 8Xs......nice group

    She will qual with the +Ps....her gun really like em......:D
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2012
  15. oldbrass

    oldbrass Well-Known Member

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    SWO1 Can you only carry a firearm you qualify with ? perhaps I was in the army to long haha
     
  16. SWO1

    SWO1 Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporting

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    From what I have seen every state has different requirements, rules. In Missouri there is NO RESTRICTION on the firearm you qualify with, the one you carry, or the number you carry. The Instructors I know will either supply a firearm for you to shoot in qualification or you may shoot one you bring.

    Missouri does require that the training provide hands on instruction with SA, DA Revolvers and Automatics. The Instructor I use and refer people to incourges and will let all his students shoot them all. When I took the course I declined shooting them and just shot my S&W .357 for Qual. My niece shot a Browning target .22 for qual but carried a .38 snub....now has switched to a .380 auto.

    In the Marine Corps I qualified with the M14 and 1911 but carried a Remington 700 and S&W .357.....:D Qual with those was done OJT....:p
     
  17. SWO1

    SWO1 Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporting

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    The CCW class went at 0830 today. My wife desided to delay on taking it as she is the director of the After School YMCA program at the school for K-4th grade. As of now school personnel are forbidden to be armed as is anyone else on school grounds. The county is presently discussing a "security" change on that matter.

    My daughter along with 19 others did attend. 6 females and 14 males ranging in ages from early 20s to 60 probley 70s. Class room time was about 4 1/2 hours. A short break for lunch and then to the range. First up was anyone that wanted to shoot any of his demo guns were given the oppurtunity. About 8 or so did. that took about an hour.

    The qual phase went fast and smooth. All had their own firearm and were proficient. After changing the first 4 or so B-27 targets Sonny just stapled a 8X10 blank white sheet of paper over the previous group and it was next up. Never a shot off the paper. He made the comment it was the best shootin group he ever had. On conclusion we went back to the class building and certificates ere exchanged for $75 a head.

    Most shot .22s. My daughter the .357 with .38+ps. A couple of other revolvers, seemed like they were .38s and some 9mm autos.
     
  18. greyhawk50

    greyhawk50 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the update.
    Nice choice!!!!!
     
  19. SWO1

    SWO1 Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporting

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    Buracratic backlash has hit my county. My daughter checked this morning on getting her CCW PERMIT from the Sheriff. The fee has SKYROCKETED 140%. Henry, the deputy who is one of her patients at the doctors office, who issues the permits, told her it has went from $5 to $12. Cash only, exact change to boot. PRICE GOUGING if ya ask me............:mad: I'm thinkin of movin to Ill to avoid these outlandish costs.....:p
     
  20. FOUR4D4

    FOUR4D4 Moderator Moderator

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    Are You Serious?