Hot bluing from cold bluing

Discussion in 'Gunsmithing' started by moparman1911, Sep 23, 2012.

  1. moparman1911

    moparman1911 Well-Known Member

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    Anyone ever try to cold blue a gun or receiver even with the paste and it comes out thin with stripes no matter how many coats.i have a cure and it makes it dark.i take a aluminum cup a heavy one from like the bottom of a canteen i pour the bluing in there all be it paste or regular with a non napth rag or swab without lint.this is for caution as bluing is mostly acid.i open the garage door and take a propane torch and put it on the cup not breathing the chemicals i already have gun degreased and ready to go.i get the bluing just about to the boiling point but it cools fast.i take the blued soaked rag out of the aluminum cup and wipe it down the length of the barrel the hot bluing turns almost black and bites right into the metal.let dry for 15 minutes or so re heat the cup and do it again and when you are done to you color of bluing desired wipe it down with oil and put it away without touching the metal.i refinished alot of customers firearms that way,as metal is porus and when you heat the rag and rub it down it changes the molecular structure of the metal to open up and literally soak up the bluing into the metal.it works 100% of the time.i guarentee it.an old body mans trick but for other solvents you will not be dissapointed.if your barrel is super rusted run the barrel up and down a grinding wheels wire side and take off all the finish and all the pits then go over it with steel wool in the correct orders to you get 4 ot and degrease then instead of cold bluing just running off as it always does it bites right into the metal not one streak or splotchy area.
     
  2. SHOOTER13

    SHOOTER13 RETIRED MODERATOR Lifetime Supporting

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    Thanks for the tips mopar...!!
     

  3. axxe55

    axxe55 Well-Known Member

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    yes, very good tip. i use a method very similar to that, but heat the item to be blued rather than the blueing.

    just some thinking on my part here, but what if you heated the part to be blued and also heated the blueing?

    i heat the parts to be blued to about 120-140 degrees and use a laser temp guage to determine the temp of the part to be blued. i do this because metal is porous and heating it makes the metal take the blueing better.
     
  4. Big Shrek

    Big Shrek Well-Known Member

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    We gotta get you into an English class...punctuation is your friend!! ;)
    But it is a good tech-tip, even if hard to read.

    It also helps if the metal is warmed up to 90+ degrees...
    found that out when cold bluing in winter...first attempt turned out blotchy/streaky,
    then cleaned it all off & re-polished, heated up the barrel near (but not too near) a space heater,
    then applied Birchwood-Casey Super Blue...which turned out GREAT!!
     
  5. moparman1911

    moparman1911 Well-Known Member

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    lol..

    ok, i get a bit ahead of myself and start writing and then do not spellcheck,so you got me there,lol.i will try harder,but to answer the question to heat the metal,that`s a tough one because if heated too much you can make it warp or weaken the metal, but a fan type heater that gets the metal hot but not too hot.as you said and i said the metal is pourus.so i heated up the pan and the rag was smoking hot and the hot blueing grabbed right into the metal and was super dark almost black.i like it because it does not leave it blotchy or striped and you can literally make the metal black if you wanted. That is how good it works,glad it helped,sorry about my grammer.time to either slow down or go back to english class.thanks guys.
     
  6. hombre243

    hombre243 Well-Known Member

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    Winchester 94 Reciever

    Mopar,
    Years ago I worked in a bluing shop. The one gun we had trouble with to get a good finish was the receiver of the 1894 Winchester levergun. They almost always turned purplish. Have you ever run into that problem? We figured it out but it took several attempts.

    You mentioned you had a gun shop for awhile. Just wondered if you did any bluing also?
     
  7. moparman1911

    moparman1911 Well-Known Member

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    yes..

    it is like a weird blue but not blued look with a purple tint.almost like a bad case hardening job.that is the receiver not your work.i scrubbed the heck out of it steel wool and put a small electric fan on it so it hurt to the touch then i did my hot blueing trick.it would always darken it right up.hope it helps hombre
     
  8. duster066

    duster066 Well-Known Member Supporting

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    How durable is your "hot" cold blue jobs? We did a few guns as kids using Birchwood Casey but they all rubbed off with normal use. I've done a major touch up job on my win 94 and had to do it again after one season of hunting. Since it's a 1965 model I can't imagine it would hurt it's value to give this a try on the whole gun.
     
  9. hombre243

    hombre243 Well-Known Member

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    Cool to hot

    Mopar, we found the trick was to hang the metal parts subject to smurfing into a very cool tank of hot bluing salts. 1894 Winnies were the hardest to get perfect. Then we would heat to normal bluing temp and remove and handle as usual. Start cold, finish hot. A fella named Al Freeland told us that. Ever heard of him? He was an inventor back before we were born. Can't find much on him or his equipment. But he was involved in all kinds of shooting activities ans bluing metal was part of what he did. It is the high nickle content in the Winchester receiver that caused the problem.
     
  10. Marlindude

    Marlindude Well-Known Member

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    Hey guys,

    I'm stoked, after reading these post on rebluing.
    It would be great to have a sticky on the subject.
    Sorry for any grammar errors Big Shrek! Lol

    I would really like to try this out on a couple of
    wall hangers!
     
  11. moparman1911

    moparman1911 Well-Known Member

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    hey...

    Hey duster.i did a ton of guns, even rusty nasty ones i had to run up and down may grinding wheel brush.i have not had any of my blueing rub off, thin or streak or rust.i use the blueing in the paste form,so when it gets hot it melts right into the rag and once the part is de greased and use a scratch pad lightly or steel wool,i sucks right in. Because it is a thick paste no streaks on the metal.as soon as dries i put another coat of bluing on,maybe 6 or 7 coats.i put a even layer of gun oil on it.then do not touch the metal at all with my fingers, as their are salts ans such that will leave prints.i have done receives that looked like they where dug out of the ground. They came out beautifully and held up for years.if it is discustingly rusted and pitted run it up and down your grinding wheel taking most or all the rust off.take some 180 down to 320 sandpaper,degrease and the paste will fill in some of the pits,not all by any means, but it will bring life to an old beater.i owned my shop for nine years and refinished dozens of guns in dozens of ways and never had an unsatisfied customer ever.some of my refininshed firearms where posted on my wholesalers sites to show how beautiful my work came out.they all like the car clear coat and baked on ceramic coating.but as a ex bodyman,painter,mechanic my whole life. I use that skill to refinish guns and i have done some really radical guns.people freak when i take a non checkered laminate stock set and egg dye it either straight color or make my own the clear coat it with car clear coat as it has a catalist in it and won`t melt with chemicals on it.i sand the clear with 2000 wet and buff with a car buffer and it is deeper than any urathane you will ever find and more durable,plus if you scratch it,sand it with 2000 wet and rebuff it.if it is down to the wood you can take a horse hair brush for pinstriping,you can get it at any body shop and keep filling in the scratch til you have more than was in the scratch and sand it and buff it and it blends in perfectly.i stood by all my work. Anything a customer wanted me to do including checkering and scrolling.i stand behind my cold to hot blueing 100& percent.i had dozens of guns posted on the net by my wholesalers when i sent them pictures.it is like nothing you will ever see.i did an sks stock purple for a customer and clear coated it a dozen times with car clear coat and my spray gun and the gentleman died and he had paid for the work already, so his wife told me to have it.i was asked 200 times where did i get that high gloss plastic purple stock.get a beater gun and try those two things out. If you follow my direction you will have a totally different showpiece.thanks for asking.
     
  12. moparman1911

    moparman1911 Well-Known Member

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    no worries

    hey marlindude,no worries i write a ton of posts and comments and tend to get excited and type too fast so i have one long misspelled post,lol.not that bad but i get my chops busted. but the point is i get my point across.not everyone can be great at everything, if you try you never fail.good luck with your project and hope it helps.post pics when it is done.most people defeat themselves before they even try.i am sure however it comes out if you are happy with it then that is all that matters
     
  13. duster066

    duster066 Well-Known Member Supporting

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    That sounds a little like me. I'm a career airplane mechanic and have found much of what worked on airplanes works REAL GOOD on guns. I have considered refinishing stocks using a urethane clear coat. If it's tough enough to sit outside in the elements on an airplane for years it will certainly be durable on a gun stock. My Win 94 is not badly pitted, just 47 years of being carried by the receiver has done it's thing. I'll try your HOT cold bluing trick and see how it works. I have a Yugo Mauser I can try it on first, so there is nothing to loose. Thanks for the heads up.
     
  14. moparman1911

    moparman1911 Well-Known Member

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    Lol...

    hey marlindude,we all have our downfalls.i have so much in my head to write, i just write.i try to be aware of it. but i am excited to get my information out.i figure as long as i get my point across it is all good,as i would like to help and contribute in any way i can.on the computer i can`t write in crayon,lol.
     
  15. ShootersEdge

    ShootersEdge Member

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    Can any of you guys tell me where I can get a good book that outlines the steps for hot blueing. I have the tanks and burners.
     
  16. Ickaber

    Ickaber Well-Known Member

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    Mopar, can you explain the egg dye process a bit more? I've got a model 60 (with squirrels) that I bought for my daughter for her birthday in December. I've got it all tuned up and shooting nice and am getting ready to refinish the stock. I've been thinking I'd like to add a really light color to it to make it unique for her -- could be either for the whole stock, or maybe just make the squirrels stand out a bit more, or whatever.

    All suggestions are welcome, but I'd especially like to hear about the easter egg coloring. I wouldn't want to make it look like a plastic gun, but maybe find a color that could accent the wood grains or something.

    Thanks.

    Ickaber
     
  17. duster066

    duster066 Well-Known Member Supporting

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    Well if I'm going to tear my Win 94 down to refinish the receiver I decided it would be a good time to tune it up. I ordered a tune up kit and some new screws, and will post before and after pics when I'm done.
     
  18. duster066

    duster066 Well-Known Member Supporting

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    A shout out to Midwest Gun Works! I ordered a tune up kit late Monday I think, and it arrived as ordered today. Great service. Guess I'll have to try Moparman's "hot cold bluing" method. I have a full weekend of shooting planned so I'll try it next week.
     
  19. axxe55

    axxe55 Well-Known Member

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    i would check out Brownell's as they carry lots of blueing supplies and equipment and probably carry books as well. also do a Google search as well, because there is lots of information on blueing out there on the internet. Brownell's may even have some instructional videos on blueing.
     
  20. moparman1911

    moparman1911 Well-Known Member

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    thanks for asking.here are answers

    The clearcoat egg dye thing is unique.if you have checkering it won`t work because it fills in the checkering.unless you take a gun refinishing scribing file and dig out the clear from the checkering and your last coat just blow over the checkering lightly.i have had show winning guns in gun shows and on the net.i was an ase certified mechanic but also a master painter and bodyman.this looks sick on laminated stocks,but straight wood it really pops.i sand the wood down accordingly.if it is just a bit fuzzy and i want to take the crap laquer off i go from 180 to 320 to 4x steel wool.soft like a babies bottom.if you want your stock lighter bleach it and let it lay in the sun for a day.even the darkest stock lightens up.i take egg dye and either use a straight color, green looks nice or mix my own color to trick it out.if you don`t like it just wipe it off with water.the egg dye applied.i go to the body shop supply store.i buy a pint of car clear a pint of slow hardener and slow reducer.slow reduces solvent pop, if you put too much on.i dust a coat on and leave it til the next day.if i put a whole coat on the clear would sink into the wood forever.so the next day i nib it off with steel wool and a tack rag.i put a even medium coat on with my garage door open so the solvents can do their thing.15 or 20 minutes later.i touch a spot no one will see lightly.if it pulls strings of clear your ready,if it is still fluid keep checking it til it pulls clear strings.car clear needs no sanding in between coats.so i put a half dozen or so medium coats.as if you put on too much at a time.the clear skins over but underneath is wet so the solvent is trying to get throught the top layer of clear and blushes,turns frosted looking or has pits where the solvent had to escape and left holes.it can be fixed. But let me get to the finishing product.you have your alotted coats on it.if you stock was deeply scratched put more on i will tell you why.wait two weeks to a month so the clear will stop sinking.take 2000 wet sandpaper and sand it til it is smooth,so if it sunk in a bit you flatten it out,if it is scratched you flatten it out.it will be as smooth as a car finish,then rent or buy a cheap car buffer,not a car waxer a variable speed buffer,most guys have one in their garage.go to the body shop supply store and buy a medium buffing wheel,we call them rags then a black finish one.take maguires compound and either have someone hold the stock or put it in a vise with rags on both sides.buff with the medium rag and then the finisher pad.then hand rub the stock with wax.the car clear coat is impervious to most any chemicals as it has a catalist in it(a hardener).it will look so deep with such a luster it will look like shiny plastic.if you do scratch the clear.take a toothpick or horsehair brush from the body shop supply shore.a toothpick worked better for me just break it in half and clean it up.keep dipping the toothpick a bit at a time in the clear can til the scratch is filled and dry then put another one ontop of the scratch on the clear.take 2000 wet sandpaper and even by hand after sanding compound that spot by hand with a rag and then wax.you will spend around 100 bucks for everything.you will have the most unique stock set anyone has ever saw.especially with the egg dye.the egg dye hides alot of small scratches.it is very hard to scratch,if you get brush scratches go home and hand compound.i have made show quality stocks.no one ever thought about doing it.and unless you throw a soaked rag of laquer thinner on it overnight nothing eats it.no gun cleaners even stain it.it is easy for me because to me the wood was just like metal.but it is straight forward even if you download this and you will have the most beautiful unique stock ever made.no one does that but me.it was posted on the ak47 boards and had 15 pages about the stock set.everyone freaked out.i had my guns on classic arms.us.ben is a heck of a guy and i would take in stocks and redo them that way.i did a beautiful honey yellow ak47 that i did not want to give back.trust me it is a fun project and be the talk of the shooting range and to all your friends.nothing like it.you will truly be impressed.