Yesterday with the new .38 tired it after a long time. The subject was brought up by grewhawk50 on another thread with some good discussion and articles. My result after a LONG absense from the form was groups at DA with the revolver were averaging 4" low from intended point of impact at both 3 and 7 yards. I thought about it a lot last night and was back at it again today. Took out 3 guns, the H&R 4" .22 revolver, the Armscor 4" .38 revolver, and the 5" Hi Point .40 auto. Today used the B-27 full sillouite target, top of the head at 6'. Interesting results. The .22 with the combat stance was DEADLY. Groups at 3 and 7 yards could be covered with a saucer....dead center. Shot 4 cylenders of 9 shots each from both yardages. First cylender with the .38 had a better group than yesterday but was still low. I had an Itea......Grip Pressure....although the recoil on the .38 is very light I still apply a lot firmer grip than on the .22. I eased up on the pressure.....AND THE GROUPS CAME UP....A good 2". After 3 series of 5 rounds the groups were still there. Switched to the .40 auto. Its a lot bigger gun. the recoil isnt any more than the .38. Shot the first mag with normal grip.....about 4-5" low. Again eased up on the grip and UP THEY CAME. I have to watch it with the auto. The slide action has a lot more muzzle climb than a revolver any less pressure with the grip and it starts to want to jump out of my grip. But the .40 does shoot a tighter group than the .38. I feel I'm making progress. With a little more than a 100 rds. down range with the combat stance...both eyes open and not using sights, shooting low 10s and 9s. An improvement over low 9s and 8s from yesterday.