SAA choices

Discussion in 'Other Guns' started by duster066, Jul 31, 2012.

  1. duster066

    duster066 Well-Known Member Supporting

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    Anyone know anything about newer Single Action Army clones and their quality?

    I need another 357 for Cowboy competition. I'm fairly convinced I want to go with a Black Hawk for toughness, but they don't have the authentic look. The Vaquero is also an option, but they are priced about a hundred bucks more used.

    I might also go with a SAA clone. I was looking at the options and was surprised to see the Ubertis were not as much as I had thought. They seem to have a fairly good reputation as one of the best clones. The Rough Rider get's some excellent reviews. It is made with some rough Pietta parts with final machining and fitting done here by US workers at Heritage. They are also kind of pricey new and there are few on the used market. The Bounty Hunters are OK and priced right, but they are 100% German. Any opinions?
     
  2. SHOOTER13

    SHOOTER13 RETIRED MODERATOR Lifetime Supporting

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    I'll have to vote for the Ruger Vaquero...owning a Old Model Bisley in .357 myself !!

    Ruger's are built like tanks...and the new Vaquero's are built on the smaller SAA frames now...adding to the realism and feel.

    [​IMG]
     

  3. SHOOTER13

    SHOOTER13 RETIRED MODERATOR Lifetime Supporting

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    Did you ever buy that Single Action Army clone duster066 ?!

    Just curious as to which model you finally picked....
     
  4. duster066

    duster066 Well-Known Member Supporting

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    Not yet, but I'll do so before the next shoot. I'm leaning towards a Uberti because I want one faithful to the Colt design and that I can get parts for. I'd buy a Ruger but I want to learn the SAA design and the Ruger wont help with that. Do you have anything you want to sell? I'd rather find a beater that needs work.
     
  5. axxe55

    axxe55 Well-Known Member

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    Duster, i have handled the Uberti's. they are very well made and seem to be of excellent quality. another source you might want to check out is Cimmaron Arms in Texas. they make a lot of reproduction SAA pistols and lever action rifles.
     
  6. SHOOTER13

    SHOOTER13 RETIRED MODERATOR Lifetime Supporting

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    Sorry my friend...nothing is for sale in my collection.

    Good luck with your search...
     
  7. duster066

    duster066 Well-Known Member Supporting

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    Here's an odd question. Last week Cabellas had a Uberti Hombre base model for sale for 369 on their web site. Right now they have a Pietta for sale for 399. They look identical but so what right. However they both have the very same 5 reviews, word for word. Are these two different makers of are they associated in some way?
     
  8. Hyphenated

    Hyphenated Well-Known Member

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    Maybe Cabellas is fudging on the reviews??? No wait...that can't be it, everything you read on the internet is true.
     
  9. duster066

    duster066 Well-Known Member Supporting

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    Any opinions of the Pietta. I found the gun I want from Dixie Gun Works for the best price I've found yet. I know Heritage Arms Rough Rider big bores are made using rough finished Pietta parts with finish machining and fitting done in Florida, and they review very well against the Uberti and new Colts. Cimmaron uses Uberti and Pietta for the foundations of many of their guns, so I'm thinking the Pietta may be a good choice.
     
  10. SHOOTER13

    SHOOTER13 RETIRED MODERATOR Lifetime Supporting

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    I've handled a Uberti 1873 SAA clone called the Cattleman with a beautiful charcoal blued finish, but never a Pietta.

    The Heritage Arms firearms I've seen do have a rough finish...just remember, you get what you pay for ( sometimes even less ).

    My Ruger Bisley Vaquero is the big framed ( Blackhawk Frame ) model, but the new model Vaqueros are closer to the Colt's in frame size now.

    Nothing beats the Colt has far as fit, finish, heft, and the unmistakeable 4 clicks.

    Of the ones you mentioned...I would go with the Uberti.
     
  11. aka

    aka Well-Known Member

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    I have Pietta 1860 Army but no cartridge gun from them. I have Uberti Richard Mason's but my most realiable guns have been my Vaquero's. A wiser person than I shared this when i started in SASS. If you shoot Colt's or Colt Clones you need a minmum of 3 pistols, one in the shop 2 on your hip. If you use Rugers 2 is all you need. I love Colts but can't afford to keep them in the shop. I have 2 clones there now
     
  12. Hyphenated

    Hyphenated Well-Known Member

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    I think one of the best Colt clones is the Hawes that was imported from Germany and made by Sohn and Sons. Unlike the Ruger's it is a true clone in function. You don't see many of them around, but they are well built and worth the money. Think German engineering.
     
  13. duster066

    duster066 Well-Known Member Supporting

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    Thanks for the responses guys. The reason I've decided on a Colt clone is I've taken to the design and want to learn to fix and trick them up. I have an H. Weihrauch which I believe is the outfit that bought the tooling from J.P. Sauer & Sohn the makers of the Hawes when they morphed into Sig Sauer. It is a mid eighties model Arminus 357 and has been a great gun for all this time. The EAA Bounty Hunter is the current offering from Weihrauch, and while the gun (I fixed one for a friend) is close to my early model most internal parts are not interchangeable and most of the differences are towards going lighter in weight. Mine is a true 4 click gun and except for a hammer block safety and frame mounted firing pin it's very close to 2nd gen Colts. I've been fitting Colt and Bounty Hunter parts to keep it running. But it really needs bolt and hammer screws, and the Bounty Hunters are to small and the Colts are standard treads. So not liking the light weight parts in the Bounty Hunter I've decided to go with something a bit better and I can get parts for. I also like the idea of a true Colt clone with the hammer mounted firing pin. That Pietta I found at Dixie Gun Works is exactly what I want, 5 1/2", color case hardened frame, and blued for 399. That's real tempting. I've found Ubertis in the same trim for about 50 bucks more which is not a deal breaker. I had a lot of fun shopping for the lever gun, and after tuning I'm real happy with my Marlin. I'm sure I'll be pleased with what ever I decide to go with.
     
  14. duster066

    duster066 Well-Known Member Supporting

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    Sorry I've been a way for awhile. Mental health break. My wonderful wife finally gave up trying to get through her life never purchasing a gun, and she bought me this for my birthday.


    This is the review I posted at Austin's Hi Point site.

    Picked up my new Pietta M1873 SAA today. This is my initial impressions after a detailed clean up and inspection. I'll compare it to my Weihrauch ARM357 SAA, a Weihrauch, EAA Bounty Hunter SAA, my Super Blackhawk, my Taurus 627, and S&W 12-2. I have not shot it yet.

    I was initially displeased with my Marlin 1894C, and my first reviews of that gun displayed that fact. I was wrong about that gun, and after tuning it has turned out to be an outstanding rifle. My initial impressions of this Pietta are extremely positive, and I am stoked by what I've seen. However it still has to perform the job it was built for, so keep that in mind.

    I layed it out with the Wiehrauch and right away I went WOW! I had read the Wiehrauchs are bigger guns, but like many things we read we really don't know until we see the real thing. The Wiehrauch is a monster, and you don't have to look to know it because of the weight difference. The Pietta is a very close copy of the Colt, and if the Colt is a medium frame revolver then the Wiehrauch must be a large frame gun. I bought the Pietta to get two similar guns for cowboy action. I do now have two that shoot the same ammo, but they are not similar. The grips are similar in size so they feel the same, but the reach to the hammer is much longer on the Wiehrauch, the trigger guard is larger and a farther reach, and then there is the weight. Guess I need another Pietta, and I can retire the German gun as it is getting long in the tooth now and parts are not easy to come by.[​IMG]

    The major differences:

    The Wiehrauch frame is obviously much larger in all respects. Every where you look or measure there is more steel in the German frame. I'd guess it's 357 Blackhawk size, and will try to compare it to one at my next shoot.

    Cylinder length: Pietta, 1.614". ARM 1.755" minus 0.017" recessed chambers gives a 0.124" OAL advantage to the German. I have taken advantage of this with some of my loads, and they may not fit in the Pietta. However I have 5 of my 180gr bear loads in it right now and they just fit.[​IMG]

    Cylinder width: Pietta, 1.657". ARM 1.732" for 0.075" more meat in the German.

    Gun Blast reviewed the Bounty Hunters and noted these advantages. He believed the Bounty Hunter was likely a stronger gun that would stand up to full pressure loads better than the Colt. I've owned this one since the late 80s and have probably put 2000 rds of factory 357 through it before the last few years and 1000 mostly 38 in the last 2 years. It shot loose while working up my bear loads and after a box of Buffalo Bores very HOT 180 bear rounds. I was able to tighten it back up nicely by refitting the bolt for better engagement, fitting a Colt base pin and bushing, and shimming the cylinder with end shake shims. It also finally broke the trigger/bolt spring a few months ago, and while in there I replaced the main spring, both Bounty Hunter parts.

    Now the fit and finish of the Pietta. In a word good. I am tempted to say GREAT, but I've never really held a GREAT revolver, and I know from the pros a GREAT revolver is perfect, and the Pietta is not perfect., But man it's real nice compared to what I own. The Blueing is deep and rich, better that my Ruger, and maybe the same as what my Smith may have had on it in 1972 when it was new. The grips are nearly a perfect fit with only a tiny gap near the right back strap screw. The German grips had a nasty mismatch along the back strap and trigger guard which I was able to mostly work out by refit. The color case hardening is pretty, bright, and rich. The German is dull and faded, but I don't remember what it looked like when new. It's to bad the gun was bought for competition cause it's gonna get beat on hard, and that's a shame. But I'll get over it, I did with the Marlin.

    Timing and lock up: Very good, not great but very good and better than any revolver I own. A perfectly fit SAA will lock the cylinder at the exact moment the hammer locks. This one does so with 4 or the 6. One of the others is slightly late, and the other is slightly early. My Smith is better, perfect actually. The bolt drop is perfect and perfectly aligned with the cylinder notches, all 6. The cylinder is nearly perfectly tight on the Pietta in both end shake and rotation, better than the Smith, but the Smith is 40 years old. The Pietta will loosen up, but it's real nice right now. And the chamber to bore alignment on the Pietta, as check visually is absolutely perfect ALL SIX. The ARM is off a few thousandths on all six, all in the same direction indicating a machining geometry issue, the Taurus is off on two of seven indicating sloppy machining, the Ruger and Smith are perfect. Cylinder to barrel gap is 0.009". Large for a modern combat revolver, but just right for a heavy lead shooter.

    The bore appears perfect, something I can't say for my Ruger which has an obvious distortion where the extractor housing screw bushing is fit to the barrel. That can't be helping the accuracy issues I'm having with that gun.

    The sights are much better than the ARM. The groove along the frame is deeper, and the front post is narrower, both of which makes picking them up easier on my old eyes. The front post is much higher than my re-contoured post on the German. Nearly every review I've read about the gun says they shoot low NIB. So I will go to the range with a file.[​IMG] But with the timing and lock up I expect this thing to be precise, and I'll make it accurate.

    I'm stoked! It's nice, and was about 50 bucks cheaper from the Dixie Gun Works than from anywhere else I found them, and they had it in stock. However they have a rule that they will only ship modern firearms UPS next day air, so there went 30 bucks of the price advantage. Wait maybe that's postal service rules, right? The post office wont ship hand guns??? At any rate the price was excellent, and only a few bucks more than the base model, and ugly flat black Uberti, and I got a 5 1/2 barrel, color case hardened frame, and a black back strap. I can't stand the brass on the base models.

    9/24/12: It shot great. I had to file the front sight about 0.10" to get it on POA. Nice gun and happy with my wife. She likes the new floor I put in for her too.;)
     
  15. moparman1911

    moparman1911 Well-Known Member

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    no on pietta

    hey duster i sold both at my shop and the ruger and if i could get em and people where willing to pay true bislies.the pietta hand in hand compared to the uberi is apples and oranges and pietta has serious defects in customer service and satisfaction.the eaa bounty hunter is a nice gun for the price and eaa is a good company that stands by their products.i would go with anything but the pietta but i had everyone in my shop and the pietta fit and finish on all thier guns are sub par.european american arms i have to like their products and i sold ruger bislies and some came back with defects but the company took care of them,slow but they did but in my opinion if you had a couple bucks get the uberti.just an opinion but i have had all of them in my hands one time or another over the years but if you could find a true bisley scap it up and don`t go by the gun blue book values the book is vague and the prices are somewhere in the region but most of the time are way off.i hope it helps duster
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2012
  16. duster066

    duster066 Well-Known Member Supporting

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    I went with the Pietta because rumor has it they have greatly improved their quality in the last 5 years or so, and this gun it real nice. Plus I got it for the same price everyone else wanted for the base, parkerized, brass, model. And Cimerron is now using them as a foundation for the guns they sell. Of course time will tell the real story.
     
  17. moparman1911

    moparman1911 Well-Known Member

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    cool

    duster i am glad you are happy and your gun is what you wanted it to be.i have not owned my shop for a couple of years now so maybe they got the hint and brought their product up to par.i hope so and i hope their customer service got better too.i was just going by what i knew, but it sounds like they got their act together.i hope you enjoy the pistol and have no problems with it.the way you say it is they made vast improvements in their guns.tell me how she shoots when you get her to the range.i am sure you will be happy.you sound confident in the firearm and quality now shoot it and see how she groups then post a thread so we can see have fun shooting it..
     
  18. aka

    aka Well-Known Member

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    One must remember buying a Pietta or even an Uberti at slightly higher price. They are inexpensive copies. You will never get an American made Colt or clone for the money that either of the Italian makers sell theirs for. Even if you put an extra buck and half in them they are cheaper. Colt and USFA are not cheap and they have their own issues also. For a gun as cheap as the Pietta or Uberti that is designed for basically CAS, they are very realiable and functional. Hope you enjoy them and get all the misses shot out of them soon.
     
  19. duster066

    duster066 Well-Known Member Supporting

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    misses is my middle name. Peawiliker Misses Jones!:D
     
  20. SHOOTER13

    SHOOTER13 RETIRED MODERATOR Lifetime Supporting

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    Did I miss the pics of that new Pietta !?