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Discussion Starter #21
At least you have a good source of data from one company. I will be extrapolating my loads using info from 35Rem and 375Win data for my 35/30-30. My Hodgdon manual has some data for heavier than normal bullets in the 375Win. This will be very useful because a 245gr gas checked cast bullet is on my agenda.
 

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The contender can be loaded to 52K CUP loads in cartridges with small bases like the 223. You cannot load a 30-30 with large rim size to those pressures without stretching the action. That's why they invented the Encore.
30-30 rifles and their ilk can probably sefely contain up to 43K pressures and higher under special projects.
You have to remember there are still old turn of the century rifles chambered to these calibers that can can have factory ammo put in them. The 45 Colt is case in point and the old single actions and even newer ones can't take the pressures that the Ruger revolver and Contender can take. You can 45 Magnum loads equivalent to 44 magnum loads for the Ruger at 25% less pressure than the 44 Mag. There are lots of old Remington Model 8 and 81 autos chambered in 35 Rem out there as well. Ammunition has to be held down to the lowest common denominator. WHile the firearm does contain the pressure of the ammo fired in it, the cartridge case acts as the gasket that seals the bore once the ammo is fired. If the gasket blows the gases and pressure will leak out.
A case in point is a fellow that was shooting a Browning 280 and a Browning 7mm Magnum side by side and the inevitable happened when he had both types of ammo on the shooting bench. A 280 was touched off in the 7mm Magnum. the case filled out out the chamber walls but exceeded its elasiticity and ruptured down the case wall. Gas was vented out the relief cuts in the action and down through the magazine well knocking the hinged magazine down and the magazine off the floor plate. No harm came to the rifle or shooter. other than to pride. Interesting enough the bullet thus fired remained in the group at the 100 yard target. He kept his ammunition on the bench only for the rifle being fired from then on.
A stronger gasket does not make a stronger rifle or handgun. You still can't shoot casull pressure loads in the Ruger Blackhawk/TC Contender or 308 pressure loads in the 30-30.
 

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Discussion Starter #24 (Edited)
Thanks for the link Hunter. I have seen his data before. He has the 35-30AI listed, but he only has one bullet weight and one powder shown with no velocity numbers.

I'm not sure who ever said the Contender shouldn't be loaded to 52,000cup with rimmed cases, but nobody ever told that to Speer.;) My Speer #12 manual has 357max listed at 48,000 and 375win at 52,000...both rimmed cartridges. I owned one 20 years ago chambered in 7-30 Waters. A 30-30 case necked down to 7mm with the shoulder moved forward for those guys who have never heard of it. I would never repeat the loads I was using in that gun on an internet forum, but lets just say they were hot. I never had any negative issues with that pistol, well maybe one...that sucker was too heavy to lug around in a shoulder holster.:rolleyes:

As far as your buddy with the 7mm Mag goes, that's really comparing apples to oranges. That accident had nothing to do with case failure, over pressure loads or firearm design. That was simply a matter of poor protocol. I'm just saying....
 

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Ya, it depends on the case head diameter. I played with the 7-30 Waters as well in the Contender and Winchester rifle. I also had a Contender frame that was stretched that i got from someone using overzealous loads in a 300 Savage chambering. Basically i was saying that the Contender will not take 308, 30-06, 7mm-08, 260, etc. loads and that is why they developed the Encore and i played with those as well in it along with the 454 Casull, 444 Marlin and 45-70. The 7mm/280 illustration was to show that if the brass "gasket" fails the action will not contain the gases and they will be vented elsewhere be it out the magazine, relief ports in action ring or along the bolt raceways into the shooter's face. A contender,marlin lever, or winchester lever rifle will not safely take the pressures that even a H&R handirifle can withstand on a regular basis, except for maybe the beefed up winchester big bore rifle reciever.
I don't know what the case capacity of the 35/30 is compared to the 35 rem but can imagine the 35 Rem has greater capacity.
I do know that the 35 rem can be pushed to just below 358 winchester velocities in the handirifle and it can withstand more pressure than a Marlin rifle especially since the handirifle is chambered for the 35 Whelen as well. Any and all of them can be hotrodded to greater pressures and you may get away with it until the last time when the action fails under cumulative stressing.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
Sounds like you have been around the block a few times Hunter with all the guns/cartridges you have messed with. Yeah I made a mistake buying that 7-30 Waters in the Contender and not the Winchester rifle. If I'd bought the rifle I would probably still have it today.

You are absolutely correct. If you hot rod any of them for an extended period of time in the wrong action metal fatique will catch up to you. That's when you start losing fingers and eyes.

I don't know the actual powder capacity of the 35-30 compared to the 35Rem and 38-55/375Win. I suppose that is something I should measure. It really won't be critical in my situation. I hate to say I had a rifle built around shooting one bullet, but I sorta did. I wanted to shoot 35cal 250gr cast bullets at 38-55 velocities. To do that in a 35Rem you have to push the bullet into the powder space and the neck doesn't support the entire bullet. The 35-30 solves the biggest issue for me, that is full length support. Powder capacity is secondary because I only want to push the bullets at 1500fps. Modest charges of 2400, 4198, RL7 or 3031 should all be able to reach my goal.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
The weather was nice today and I was back at it with the 35/30-30. I increased the speed on the 140gr pistol bullets and added a 180gr full power hunting load to my shooting. Since I boosted the power levels I move the targets out to 75 yards. Both loads performed pretty well considering everything at this point, as far as powder selection, is still guesstimation. I was averaging 1.5" groups. I won't win any medals for that, but I bet a deer might be impressed if I was sitting in the woods.

Next shooting session I will be going with the heavy weight cast bullets. Here's what today's action looked like.
 

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